Ivana Fanboy spoke with Espenson about her latest writing endeavor for Dark Horse, what it's like to be a creative professional in a time of political unrest, and how Buffy manages to stay sane when things get really bad.
Ivana Fanboy: Before we start talking about your new Buffy miniseries, Haunted, remind me -- is this the fourth project you've written for Dark Horse? I know you wrote the Buffy: Jonathan one-shot and a story in Tales of the Slayer, but wasn't there another?
Jane Espenson: I did Lone Gunmen, too.
IF: That's right. And fans were so upset that it was only one issue.
JE: That's what I heard.
IF: Let's talk about Tales of the Slayer for a second. The story you wrote for it is fantastic -- such an unexpectedly cool turn at the end! I'd hate to even hint at giving the story away, but it's a sort-of Victorian, Jane Austen era story, and I'd like to know if you had the concept for the story before you knew in what period you would set it?
JE: Not at all. I chose it completely impulsively. I like Jane Austen, and I like that era, so when Joss said that everyone who was contributing to the book had to pick a time period, I just said, "I want Jane Austen." I realized later that it's not a very comic-book era. It's not about action; it's all about words. It's not a very visual era. So I realized I'd picked this impossible task (laughs), and I had no idea what story I wanted to tell.
The first draft I wrote was much more straight-forward and didn't have the same ending as the final version. I got half way through that and knew it wasn't working, and I thought, "What am I gonna do? How can I make this a comic book?" The way it turned out was just good luck.
IF: The other writers on that project include Joss Whedon and Doug Petrie, who, of course, also write for the Buffy TV show. I know those two started writing comics because they grew up as comic-book fans and always loved the medium. Is the same true for you?
JE: No, not at all.
IF: So, is writing comics just another challenging medium to tackle?
JE: It started out just being another challenge, but Joss and Doug introduced me to the world of comic books, and I get it now. I really love 'em. It's an amazing medium that lets you tell stories really visually -- it's hard to explain, but I just ended up really loving them. I was not a fan when I started.
IF: The appreciation of comics isn't something that's easy to impart on others.
JE: People who say comics overall aren't good haven't read them, or they haven't read them since they put away their Archie collections when they were kids.
IF: It's fortunate for comics fans that you've decided you like the medium, because everything you've written -- and the same goes for Joss and Doug -- has been really fantastic. I think it's a good fit because the pace of the show sort of matches the pace of a comic-book. It's very snappy, and cliff-hanger commercial breaks can be a lot like writing a good turn-of-the-page in a comic story. I noticed that first with Joss. He's incredibly good at making the pace of each page work to great effect.
JE: I think Fray is just gorgeous. It's a good story. Pacing is very important -- I'm learning!
IF: So, your current writing project for Dark Horse is the miniseries Haunted. Could you put a time frame on this story for the readers?
JE: It's after the end of season three. At the end of season three, the mayor turns into a giant snake at high school graduation, and at that point, Faith is in a coma. So Buffy defeats the mayor/snake, and this is about what happens immediately after the mayor dies. On the show, he dies, she blew him up. And this story asks "what if she blew up the snake but the essence of the mayor remained?"
IF: Is the mayor a demon?
JE: He was when he was the snake, but before that he was just a human being who was using mystical means to stay alive indefinitely.
IF: This episode is also the one that was pulled after the shooting at Columbine, isn't it?
JE: Right.
IF: Not to add too much meaning to anything, but that was a time when the media was being very sensitive about anything having to do with schools and violence. And right now, we're experiencing some very similar things, given the recent terrorist attacks in the U.S.
JE: Yes, we are.
IF: In reading the first issue of Haunted, I was really moved by the scene where this boy Buffy knows from school approaches her, and she assumes that Willow is playing matchmaker because Angel is gone. But it turns out that the boy is looking to Buffy for help in understanding the terrible violence he just witnessed. He knows that she seems very strong and has weathered a lot of tough business, but he has no idea of the scope to which she's involved in any of it.
JE: That's true. I felt really lucky when I had that notion, because it just felt right. I think that the Slayer serves an important function for a lot of people around her. I mean, the reason they gave her the "class protector" award at the prom wasn't because she just protects the people around her by killing the demons. The people who know she's there can take comfort in the fact that there's someone there who seems to be able to handle this stuff...which is, of course, terrible for Buffy, because then she has to be the one who's always handling this stuff!
IF: And in this story, her limits are definitely tested. She's still handling things, but she's markedly more fragile. Angel just left, a lot of kids just died -- and it's great that it comes through in the comic exactly how hard it is for her to keep this up.
JE: It's a tough job (laughs).
IF: Cliff (Richards) also does a great job of showing this in really subtle ways with his art.
JE: Oh, good.
IF: There are a few panels where her eyes are really betraying her assurances that she's all right. Do you have to get yourself in a different place, mentally, when you are writing for Buffy and she is going through stuff like this, compared to when she's more sassy or things are going better?
JE: It is kind of amazing. As I've spent more time as a writer, I do feel that. I used to feel that there wasn't much connection between the emotions of the characters and my own emotions. I sort of took pride in thinking that I could write any mood without being in that mood. As I've gotten more experience, I've realized that there is a deep connection. You want to be able to identify with the characters really fully, including whatever mood they are in, so you do kind of put yourself there a little bit.
I love breezy Buffy. The syndicated episodes just premiered on F/X, and I watched episode 1. I was really struck by how much I missed breezy Buffy --the Buffy who gets that there's a big fight going on, but is more interested in her social life. We can't really do breezy Buffy any more. She's been through too much. She'll get into that mood occasionally, but she gets now how big this fight is and how never-ending it is. It's inevitable and it's interesting, and it's right that she's in that place, and it does mean that I have to put myself in that place.
IF: The first time I ever talked to Joss, he said that Buffy is all about pain. He's trying to put these kids through as much pain as possible, and it's always just been a fitting metaphor for being a teenager.
JE: Definitely. It's a great metaphor.
IF: And it works that much more as the characters in the show have gotten older. They get involved more deeply and understand on a completely different level what terror really is, and that's how it is when you grow up. Life doesn't stop being scary when you grow up, but you learn how to handle things differently.
JE: I really feel like there's a lot of Buffy that speaks to events that happen in real life that are traumatic or painful. They pulled "Earshot," which is the other episode that they delayed broadcasting because of Columbine. This was an episode I'd written where Jonathan brings a gun to campus. I was glad they'd delayed it because the episode felt really weird in that context -- it didn't feel like I'd intended it. I was also glad that they finally aired it, because I felt like it was exactly the thing that people needed to hear. You may feel all alone in your pain in high school like everyone is observing you, but in fact, nobody's paying any attention to you at all because everyone's in pain, and everyone is wrapped up in their own world. And I felt like that was really important to say.
IF: How long have you been writing for the show?
JE: Since the beginning of season three, so almost four years.
IF: It seems to have started a little before that -- once people began realizing what a good show Buffy is -- but there's been a lot said about Buffy stories having an impact on people. I'm wondering if that's anything you ever intended to do to the extent it seems to be happening?
JE: When I got this job the show was already established, and I didn't come to it intending to make any sort of social comment. I understood the show -- I knew that it was a metaphor and that I would be talking about what it is like, and what it feels like to be a teenager. So I went in knowing that, but I didn't quite understand that it would end up being so much about what it means to be a human being in this world. It's not just about the experiences of being 15 any more, if it ever was. The experiences that Buffy goes through, even when the metaphor was "high school is hell." Those feelings aren't exclusive to high school. As you grow up you realize "Oh my god, I still feel sixteen inside."
IF: Or, "I'm a nerd at 28 -- I still don't fit in" (laughs).
JE: Exactly.
IF: When we started this interview, I wasn't intending to talk on this topic so much, but considering the state of world and this general ill-ease, there's a lot of apprehension regarding entertainment right now. A lot of people are, short of wanting to apologize for anything that's been done or said, networks and movie studios are pulling shows and movies left and right. Or they're saying that they're not going to show certain things, certain kinds of violence any more. Has anything that's happened in the last couple of weeks affected how you're approaching your writing? Do you feel that there's an additional weight to the entertainment that you're creating?
JE: No. I'm not sure I know how to articulate this, but I think any change that happens to someone as a result of this is going to be as a person, not as a writer, so I don't think there will be a conscious effort to change, unless you've been changed as a person.
I have not been out on script since this happened, but just as our lives inevitably return to some version of normal, so do our characters. We can't be really topical to situations like this because it takes so long to write a script, and film the episode, so anything that happens is likely to be really subtle and really unconscious on our part.
And you know what? Any sort of cynicism about the world is something Buffy already had. Buffy was already looking at a world that she didn't trust, that was likely to go boom any moment, and in which she knew she wasn't going to live very long. So, in a way, Buffy was there before the rest of us.
IF: I guess the same is probably true of your writing. The show has never been about just blowing things up and having people not be affected by that.
JE: It's all about the consequences.
IF: That's true -- I don't think the violence has ever been handled lightly. We should talk about the comic more now! Haunted focuses on both the mayor and Faith...how does Faith fit into the events of the first issue?
JE: Faith plays a very interesting role in this comic. She is in a coma, but Buffy is having vivid dreams about her that seem to Buffy to be threats. Buffy feels like she's being attacked from within by these dreams -- that she's being attacked within her own head. But we find out by the end of the series that these dreams are actually something different entirely. What they are is left a little open to interpretation, but they are not attacks. This is sort of nice, because, as we see on Angel, Faith is not an irredeemable character. This may be the first hint of that in the Buffy timeline.
IF: It's good that you mention that, because she's definitely scary in the first issue! The concept that Buffy might be getting attacked from within is particularly frightening, too. It's bad enough that the supernatural world is already so unpredictable. She knows that she's fighting vampires on the outside, but the concept that something could get at her internally while she's trying to sleep suggests something so dark -- that she can't ever expect rest from the terror.
JE: It's true. Buffy is learning more and more about her nature -- she learned that the power she has originally was demon power. That's where Slayer power comes from. I think events that are going to be coming up on the show this season will really make Buffy and everyone else realize that being the Slayer isn't like being Superman. You are under attack not only from the outside, but also from your own nature. Or at least you can feel that way, because you are unsure of what you're made of. My goodness -- that's a strong parallel to real life. We're constantly questioning our own nature. Am I a good person? Buffy is going through this in the most literal way -- "Am I made of the same stuff that `good' people are made of?"
IF: Before we wrap up -- it must be nice to be where you are right now, writing for this great television show, and working with so many good and talented people. Everyone I've met from the show -- especially the writers -- has just been fantastic.
JE: Yes, it's very good. And we're proud of the show. And I'll say this, if there was ever a season that anyone would want to start watching, this one is it. We've got a lot of good stuff in the works.
Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Haunted is a four-issue miniseries by Jane Espenson and artist Cliff Richards. The first issue is available starting December 19.